On Saturday 25/01/25 a conversation between Jaime Vindel and Malú Cayetano took place in the Casa de la Montaña as an activity of the citizen laboratory of Manzanares el Real, ‘Cortecero Colabora’, in the framework of the project ‘Cortecero vive’. Due to technical failures it was not possible to record the whole session. This project is an initiative of the City Council of Manzanares el Real, and is supported by the Biodiversity Foundation of the Ministry for Ecological Transition and the Demographic Challenge (MITECO) in the framework of the Recovery, Transformation and Resilience Plan (PRTR), funded by the European Union – NextGenerationEU.